February 4th, 2016
Introduction (By Carl) |
Thunder Classic Role Playing is a fantasy role playing game, but it's different. It's not like anything else out there. Thunder CRP is not a clone, though it has a lot of familiar terms that other games use and yet it's not the same.
I've played Thunder CRP many times. It's fresh, fast, innovative, and simple. I loved it, and that's probably why D.B. Asked me to conduct his interview. I tried to choose questions that most gamers would ask. Frankly, there are just so many so I stuck with the questions I think are most important. If I missed anything, I recommend you go and download the PDF, Its free. |
The Magic System |
So the first question I just have to ask is about the Thunder Magic System. Where did it come from? How did you conceive it? There's nothing else out there like it.
Wow, that's a loaded question. Ha ha, Um, the simple answer is that I was challenged by a friend. He was an alpha tester. He said that he loved the system, but magic just isn't good enough. It's like every other system. Do something new. He was right, the original magic system was just a variation on the Vancian magic system. You know I love the Vancian system but its done to death and gamers want something new. My friends certainly did. Just to clarify for our readers, the Vancian magic system is where characters memorize spells and then forget them after they are cast, right? Yes, and then spell casters must memorize the spell before casting it again. So explain why your system is different. I've seen it. People seem to be blown away by it. I think you really have to see it and play it to get the full impact but the ten thousand foot view looks like this. You build your spells on the fly using modifiers and these modifiers describe what you can do and by combining two, three, four or more modifiers you get a spell. Combinations are only limited by the players imagination. And also limited by the modifiers. Exactly. That's why the modifiers are there. They describe what the mage can do and by adding other modifiers to the spell mages can do more. You know the thing that had me a bit slack-jawed was the idea that mages never run out of spells. At first I thought, "Oh man, this is so over powered," but that's not how it played. I'll be honest that was my biggest fear too but it seems to work well. Thunder uses spell points, as you know. As they are used (cast) they return at a rate of one point per round. Mages can literally blow their whole wad of spell points in one round, having a tremendous effect, or pace their casting during combat. Either way, because spell points return quickly the mage is right back into the battle and certainly fully charged by the next one. I've see it action. Everyone wants to play a Mage! How complicated is it, how would you describe it? Not any more complicated than other systems, I think. Its resolution is quick once you understand it. But you have to be a smart person to play a Mage. Its not for everyone. I've found that people who have never played a Vancian style caster pick it up quicker. If you're and old gamer, it seems to be a little harder at first to let go of the old conventions and habits. This phenomena is short lived though. Once it clicks, and it quick, it's like POW! They love it. The magic system is just so flexible and mages never run out of spells. The Thunder Mage classes are listed as disciplines not classes. How many are there? There are ten in the book. I have as many more on my computer that didn't make it into the book. Wow, I didn't know that. Why didn't they make it in? Not enough time to play test them all. Because the system is so open and completely new each one needs a lot of attention. Which magic disciplines made it in? Man, I don't think I can rattle them off in order. They are: Conjurer, Dark Mage, Spiritist, Dynamo, Air Elementalist, Fire Elementalist, Enchanter, Illusionist, Mentalist, and Transmogrifer. No worries, I'll order them after the interview. Which discipline is most popular? People seem to like them all but I think the most excitement is around the Dynamo. They Dynamo is like a magic battery, right? Close. The Dynamo's power is primal magic. They can give spell points to other mages or strip them away. Primal magic also does energy damage so it can be used in combat spells like bolts, walls, and exploding bursts. Wow, I'm blown away. It's unlike anything else out there. The Dynamo has a few other tricks as well, but you'll have to download Thunder and read it to learn more. We could go on about magic all day. One last question before we move on. Tell us about the three different spell pools? I don't want to get into it too deep, because we could go on and on. However, there are three different spell pools the Mage can draw on. The spell pool replenishes at a rate of 1 every round. The spell reserve, which is just what it looks like, a back up of spell points that return at a rate of one every hour. Finally there's creation points, these are used to create temporary magic items like potions and scrolls and return at a rate of one every 24 hours. And creation points can be used as normal spell points as well. Yes. I have so many more questions now. Especially about magic items. If we have time we can put magic items in another section. They actually fall under the category "Items of Power". |
Narrative Style & Suspension of Disbelief |
Lets talk about narrative style and suspension of disbelief. What do these concepts mean for Thunder?
They're the heart and soul of the game. How so? When we're talking about narrative style, we're really saying story. It's right-brain activity if you catch my drift. Imagination and creativity. And suspension of disbelief is immersion. Forgetting for a short while where we really are. And there are all sorts of distractions that can take players out of the story and we want to minimize these distractions. Give us some examples? Let me describe it like this. There is a significant distinction between table-top RPGs and pen and paper RPGs. Table-top involves minis, battle boards, other props, and a lot of rules. This is all left-brain activity and because we have all these visual tools, none of it, or very little of it, happens in the mind's eye. Pen and paper uses very few of these props or rules and is almost all narrative. Every action is described by the GM and the players. We have total immersion. And since it's not left brain activity, it's almost always accompanied by complex problem solving. So you don't like table-top? I love table-top. Love to power game, minmax, and throw down with a hoard of creatures. But it gets repetitive. Table-top is war gaming with a dash of role playing. The story is almost superfluous. Players memories are always what they killed, who killed them, and the treasure they picked up. Again this is a lot of fun but my experience has been that players want more. Do people just like one style or the other? I don't think so. Thats like saying people like football or baseball. A lot of people like both, some like one sure but gamers seem very flexible. It's the same with RPGs. People play both pen and paper and table top. Experience has shown me when people get tired of one style they move to the other and then back again. Where does Thunder fall? Thunder is all pen and paper role playing. Narrative driven. We encourage players to play without a battle board and minis. In fact we would prefer if you not open the rule book, well, once you learn it, while you play and not roll dice until the GM called for a roll. Just play and let the GM set the tone. What if they really need to know a rule? If you really have to know, you should open the book. But I would ask, do you really have to know? Once you pick up a book the game has stopped. You've lost immersion and suspension of disbelief. Just wing it, you can review the rules after the game is over and make corrections next game. I understand it will be different while people are learning the game, but learning the game is like practice. Players should endeavor to play without the rule book as quickly as possible. Trust me, you may have to wing a few things, but it will be totally exciting. It really sounds like the GM has a lot of power. Did you write it that way? Game Masters are the unsung heroes of the industry. Without the GM and the time they put into their games the industry wouldn't exist. GMs spend hours prepping for their game. Often it happens over at their house. They entertain and often feed the players, and yet they often get a bad rap. It's my opinion every one in a gaming group should run a game occasionally so they understand the complexities, commitment, and challenges of GMing. So to answer your question, yes, Thunder was written that way.The game needs a central authority. The idea that a player can pick up a book and overrule the GM is counter productive to the game, the story, and fun. All the rules are optional and subject to change at the whim of the GM. Wow, that seems a little extreme. What if the GM is a dictator, or likes to steal victories from the PC? Let’s face it most GMs are not. There is an enormous amount of social pressure for GMs to be fair and if they’re not, no amount of rules are going to stop them from being a jerk, no matter the system. My advice to GMs is to be fair, roll your dice in front of the players when possible and never steal a victory from the players, no matter how painful it is. People play for those victories. If the players pulled off something extraordinary through smart choices or luck of the die, tell them. That’s why players are there. It’s the story they will come away from the table with. The truth is the rules in Thunder are written the way they are because we believe the rules should not trump the story. However, it is incumbent on the GM to be fair, don't pull the rug out from under the players. Rule changes should be rare and when possible, foreshadowed. The personality of your players should be gauged well too. If they aren't flexible or looking for that challenge, then don't do it. GMing is an art. As the story teller the GM should be able to take the players through those dark and difficult places and back out again. If you don't have that confidence, do something else. There's some gaming wisdom there. Thanks. So your point is keep everything off the table and just play. I'm saying lose the table. Get everything out of the way and have fun. |
We encourage players to play without a battle board and minis. In fact we would prefer if you not open the rule book.
Combat |
I like the combat system: its different, but familiar. The attack roll is like the OGL, just roll over the armor class to hit, but extra attacks, martial proficiencies, advanced proficiencies, exploding dice, how hit points are generated, and more are different but still familiar.
That’s a lot all at once, but yes most everything is familiar. Actually rolling to hit is most familiar. Just roll a D20, add your bonuses, if the sum is greater than the targets armor class, you hit. Sorry, there's a lot of cool things in the combat section. Tell us about hit points. Hit points were one of the first issues we wanted to solve. It always seems that at low levels there are never enough and at high levels there are too many. In most games some classes really lose out, like the Mage. I have a friend that likes to joke that a house cat can kill a Mage at first level in a lot of games and he's right. This to me seemed absurd, but it's an issue of balance. These games we're talking about are great with amazing game developers and yet they accepted this as a reality and there's a good a reason for that. Its about scalability I think. So what was your solution, how did you solve the problem? I don't know if we can say we solved the problem. We may have traded one problem for another. After looking at the issue for a long while this is what we came up with. Numbers are an illusion. The trick is finding values that allow for longer play at low levels and values that didn't make combat take an hour to play through each round at higher levels. This is the philosophy of the whole chapter on combat. Keep it fast, simple, but robust and dynamic. Hit points are based on the character’s race as much as it is their class. Race determines base hit points and the hit die rolled by the class. The character’s class dictates how often hit dice are rolled. For example, a human starts off with 9 hit points and has a racial hit die of a D8. There's more too, characters get more hit points from both Strength and Endurance. Then there is recover points too. Yes, that’s right, starting hit point are equal to racial base hit points plus the average of strength and endurance plus the racial hit die. It's not uncommon for a human fighter level 1 to start with 30 hit points or more. A first level human Mage will start with 18 to 22 hit point. Recover points are different. In Thunder there aren't negative hit points. When you go below 0 hit points you lose recover points. When you reach 0 recover points, characters make a death roll or die. Recover point have a second use as well. As long as a character has one hit point, recover points may be moved over to hit points while resting at a rate of two points per minute. This is a double-edged sword though. If you move over most or all of your recover points, characters will die quickly if they are knocked below 0 hit points. Can characters stabilize when they reach 0 hit points? Yes. Characters can stabilize naturally or through the use of first aid or miraculous healing. Characters can also be resuscitated after death. But it is difficult and needs to be attempted within a couple of rounds of death. But it's still possible. Resuscitation, I love that concept. Well it made sense to us and I think it works well with suspension of disbelief. In the real world we hear stories of people suffering grievous injury, dying and coming back from the dead through resuscitation all the time. And this is a game about heroes, a lot of them, in great physical shape. As well it keeps the player engaged longer, gives them another chance, and another die roll. Its exciting to watch, it really is. I think this is a good lead-in to my next questions, the extra attack and exploding dice. Everyone loves those. I do too. The extra attack is simple; any character can take an extra attack. Swing a sword twice, wield two weapons, throw two weapons, shoot two arrows but there is a penalty for doing so. The penalty for an extra attack is equal to the speed of the weapon. Larger weapons have higher weapon speeds. So naturally classes with better attack bonuses will use larger weapons. Why exploding dice? Well, because exploding dice! There just fun. We had to have them, they enhance play and add to the excitement. And because we added more hit points at lower levels it works well. Characters can buy advanced proficiencies to offset the penalties of the extra attack, too. Yes. Warrior classes really benefit from advanced proficiencies, but so do the other classes as well. I saw a Mage fighting with two knives! Yes, that's the best a Mage can do at first level. With a good Dexterity, a first level Mage can attack with no penalty and do a d6-1 plus DEX bonus to damage per attack. The Rapscallion fairs even better with two short swords and with the two-weapon fighting advanced proficiency and their flanking bonuses. They become the reavers of the battle field. A lot of weapons can use dexterity for both attack and damage? Yes, any light weapon. But that’s not a new thing. Definitely advanced proficiencies do a lot for characters. Most advanced proficiencies are available to all classes. The big difference is when a class becomes eligible to pick them up. And there are select advanced proficiencies that only warrior classes are eligible for. And a few only the fighter class can pick up. Which ones are your favorites? I think it depends on the class, but the horsemanship advanced proficiencies really stand out. What was your primary goal with the combat system? We wanted combat to move quickly. Not rushed, we were tired of combat taking forever. We wanted smash-mouth combat with options and flexibility, but not the monotony of poring over volumes of rules. Did you get it? Oh yah, in spades. When you can run eight 10th level characters and have combat take only 10 -15 minutes a round, I'd call that a win. |
Ethos & Nature |
I found this interesting: there are no alignments in Thunder.
It’s more accurate to say that we don't call them alignments. But our system is almost analogous to alignments. That is, it looks similar, but in practice the Thunder system is very different. We use Ethos & Nature to describe the personality and beliefs of the characters. How is it different than Alignments? Ethos and Nature can complement each other, but more often than not they stand in opposition to each other. Ethos describes the belief system of a character. Nature describes how a character behaves, especially under stress. The distinction, though, is that Ethos and Nature are not handcuffs, characters are allowed to behave outside the definitions of these labels without penalty. Then what is the purpose, why have them at all? They add color and description. Most of all, it's a role playing aid: A framework for the player to use as they express their character. Still, it's more than that. We think it better describes the real world and thus adds to suspension of disbelief and the story narrative. Look at it like this: we are who we are, the sum of our actions and habits. This is our Nature. But we all aspire to be more, and adopt belief systems that we think will help us be a better person. This is our Ethos. We go against our Nature every day and we violate our Ethos just as often. It is part of the human condition. We also try new things that are not related to either our Ethos or Nature. That’s how it works. You should never hear "you can’t do that", it's "against" your alignment or your Ethos or Nature. If you do, someone has made a mistake. Can players have diametrical opposed ethos and nature? Yes. The selections will look familiar to alignments but are uniquely expresses. Characters pick from the following categories for both Ethos and Nature; law, chaos, neutral, good and evil. So there are many combinations. A character could choose a Nature of law and an Ethos of good. Or flip it around, Ethos of law and Nature of good. You asked about oppositional combinations. Yes, it's possible to have good Ethos and evil Nature and vice versa, or an Ethos of law and a Nature of chaos and vice versa. Oppositional combinations often represent tortured souls; characters being torn apart from the inside. They're fun to play. Are there alignment restrictions on classes? Yes, and no. GMs can and should allow any alignments to play any class. But in practice, in game characters can and should be ejected from their orders/organizations for violating sacred beliefs. Paladins, clerics, and cavaliers, will be judged by their actions. However, it is possible to play a paladin or cleric with an evil Nature and a good Ethos as long as the character does not break the tenants of the order. Such a character may be viewed as reformed. Of course they could also have severe lapses of judgment. It should be noted though, if your Ethos or Nature is evil, a character will detect as so with magic and miracles. Spell effects that affect evil will also affect those characters. This is true for any Ethos or Nature combination. You weren't kidding when you said dynamic. Some players will really get into this, others not so much. It’s really up to the players imagination. I will say this, if your're using Ethos and Nature as a reason to justify your behavior, you're doing it wrong. Especially if you’re doing it to aggravate other players. It’s there to have fun. I think most people will enjoy not being beat over the head with it. |
Clerics & Miracles |
In Thunder clerics don't cast spells or even use magic. Why?
I think this questions speaks for itself. The Cleric's gifts are of the divine, the miraculous. It’s a power or energy wholly separate, some might argue, above that of magic. Clerics perform miracles, and while it is possible for magic and miracles to interact with one another, the two are rarely disrupted or influenced by similar effects. Miracles still work in areas devoid of magic or magic negation, conversely magic works in areas devoid of miraculous energies. That makes way more sense to me, that’s what disciples of the gods do, perform miracles. Thunder clerics are fighting priests, and their miracles reflect that, right? I envisioned the cleric as a Templar. Trained in combat with gifts and miracles to boot. The cleric can be played offensively, and have an attack progression to support that style of play. Or they can be played as a support character, defensively as support. Clerics use Divine points to perform miracles. Is it a lot like the Mage? No, the two classes are very different. Clerics don't receive a lot of divine points and they replenish at a rate of 1 per hour, much slower than the Mage. There miracles are prebuilt and chosen from lists that consist primarily of protection, healing, and buffs. When the cleric self-buffs they can stand toe-to-toe with any fighter. Truth is they enjoy a healthy attack progression and can have almost as many hit points as other fighter classes. Can Clerics build or modify their miracles like Mages do to their spells? Clerics don't build miracles on the fly, that's the purview of the mage. But they can modify miracles as they are performed, but in a limited fashion by spending more divine points. Again, more flexibility. It seems like a lot of flexibility is just built into the game. Yes, that was our goal. As we wrote the game we wanted to make as many options’ available as possible, but still keeping it simple. A lot of these options, more so in the combat section, are not chosen, but are simply unlocked as characters advance in level. It makes playing much easier. I want to bring up another controversial rule. Clerics, paladins too, don't lose their powers for behaving outside their Ethos or Nature and, more importantly, for violating the tenants of their faith or its organization. What was the thought process behind this? Wow, I may get a lot of flak for this one. Thanks for bringing it up. (laughs) Well, I guess the simple answer is this: balance. No other class can have its abilities stripped away for acting contrary to their beliefs, and the truth is few GM's actually enforce this type of rule. However, the more thought we gave this, the more this rule made sense when applying suspension of disbelief. The gods in Thunder are not omniscient, omnipotent, or omnipresent. More than that, the gods have their own issues to deal with in the godly realms. It's entirely plausible that one's god doesn't note the cleric's transgression, ignores them altogether, or just doesn't care. Lastly, the motivations of gods is mysterious. It could be that the gods just let events unfold as they have to, not interfering, and let their disciples learn from their own mistakes. Is it possible for a cleric or paladin to lose their powers? Yes, if there is a crisis of faith. But this would be purely a role playing decision on the part of the player. As well, if they change faiths or change Ethos. Those last two come with level loss as well. Essentially miracles work like this: It’s an act of faith. As long as the cleric believes they are acting in the best interest of their faith, they don't lose their powers. It’s that simple. The gods don't actually grant powers to the cleric and paladin. The power of a cleric and paladin is the result of the accumulation of wisdom and enlightenment expressed by their faith. So a good cleric could commit an evil act without repercussions. As far as their powers are concerned, yes. But that’s not to say the local authorities don't come after the cleric. Sufficiently heinous acts will draw attention and retribution from the law, relatives, and organizations. The cleric's church, too, would become involved in apprehending their rogue cleric. Is there any situation where the cleric's god could strip a cleric or paladin of their powers? Woe be to the cleric who provokes the undivided attention of his god. This would, of course, be left to the GM to decide. But yes: a god is still a god. That god, if it chose, could strip the power of a cleric or paladin. Such an event should be very rare and skilled GMs should turn this type of event into a major plot or campaign event. |
When the cleric self-buffs, they can stand toe-to-toe with any fighter.
Martial Proficiencies |
One of the features I was surprised to see was proficiencies. Why did you choose to bring them back?
We call them martial proficiencies. Classes that don't use magic or miracles needed their own feature. Arbitrarily giving out lists of weapons to classes, that grant them access to all of them just didn't sit right with us. Certainly it is unfair to the fighter classes. But classes do have an access list of weapons and armor. These lists only apply to first level characters. It represents what weapons were available to them while training in their classes primary abilities. Beyond first level, any class can purchase any weapon they like. So a Mage could purchase a long sword or long bow? Yes, or a two-handed sword, if they like. However, the mage does not receive their second martial proficiency until 5th level. But the mage is more likely to focus in the weapon they already know so they can gain a +1 to hit. What are the categories of martial proficiencies? There are weapons, armor, advanced, and horsemen martial proficiencies. Armor, like weapons, opens up after 1st level. Any class may buy any armor, however, armor has a prerequisite of the armor type before it. A Mage could buy chain mail armor? Technically yes, but the Mage would have to already be proficient in light armor before they could purchase the medium armor type which includes chain mail. Remember the mage only gets one martial proficiency every 5 levels, armor may not be the best way to invest it. Especially when you consider there is a spell failure chance that comes with a Mage wearing armor. Still, that’s cool. What are advanced proficiencies? Advanced proficiencies include weapons skills like: weapon focus, weapon expertise, melee specialization, two weapons fighting, armor focus, armor specialization, shield bash, and a lot more. Are these open to all classes? No, a lot of it is though. To take advantage of them, you really need to have a lot of martial proficiencies. Warrior class obviously have the most to gain. The cavalier and fighter classes excel here. Like I said earlier, martial proficiencies help balance against classes that have magic and miracles. What are horsemanship proficiencies about? There aren't many systems that deal with mounted combat well. Again we were worried about suspension of disbelief. In the real world mounted combat is powerful and devastating. Yet no system seems to do it justice. In my opinion this is because of game balance. Horses, especially war horses don't have many hit points, and seem to lack damage potential. We took a stab at correcting this issue. How well do you think you fixed it? I think we did better than most. But time will tell. The important thing is that horses are expensive and war horses vastly more expensive. Characters just won’t be able to afford them at low levels. However, if a cavalier gets his hand on a horse, watch out. And the cavalier should beware arrows and missile weapons and so should their horse. Is the Cavalier broken? Maybe, a little, on horseback. But then, each class has their thing. That one class ability they excel at. The berserker, fighter, paladin, and ranger each have their own devastating attacks. |
Skills |
I love how you did skills, saves, and checks. You've rolled them into one mechanic.
The Thunder resolution system, yes. So, it’s kind of like saving throws in the OGL, except we call them "secondary attributes". Characters have a secondary attribute that is derived from each of the primary attributes. They are brawn, agility, endurance, willpower, reason, and psyche. Each is used for determining saves and skill checks. It's brilliant, it really is. It so streamlined and quick during play too. Tell the readers how it works. Each secondary attribute is the sum of the following; prime attribute bonus plus class bonus plus level bonus. So for example, if you wanted to use your grapple skill, you would make an opposed brawn check against your target. Or if you wanted to use your sneak skill, you would make an agility check. Saves work the same way: if you wanted to save against an area attack spell, you would make an agility save. Just roll a d20 and add the total bonus? Yes. Difficulty is set by the GM, taking into account the circumstance. Opposed rolls are self-explanatory. And magic DCs are 10 plus relevant secondary attribute. Most Mages' are 10 plus reason bonus. What are simple checks and saves? They are checks and saves that do not receive the level bonus. A simple check is rolled when a skill is used untrained, and a simple save is used when a save is so difficult, no amount of skill will help, just luck, though this is intended for high level play. Are your skills the same as other games in the genre? No, we rewrote most of them. We couldn't possibly go through all of them here. Notable changes are grapple, thaumaturgy, heal, knowledge ruins, and survival. |